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[personal profile] jacey
I confess this isn't a book I'd have been naturally drawn to because I'm neither a great lover of military SF, nor widely read in the sub-genre, however I'm going to Eastercon next weekend and David Weber is one of the guests of honour, so it seemed reasonable to read something of one of his best known (and best loved) characters Honor Harrington.

By the time I was halfway through this I was grinding my teeth. All the reasons that I don't read mil-SF were coming back to haunt me – way too much technical information for starters, which I guess is exactly the reason some people love this stuff. It certainly had a authoritative ring to it. If the tech stuff was bollox it was clever bollox and well thought through.

I read for characterisation and plot not technical details, so I appreciate Honor Harrington as a character. She captains a starship in the equal-ops Manticorian navy, an elegant mixture of discipline with a dash of intuition and some well covered up insecurities. I'd have liked to have seen her being something a little more than a star ship captain, but this book only concerned itself with Honor on duty.

In this novel – the first published – Honor is given her first command of an elderly and badly modified light cruiser, the Fearless, and after a single brilliant move in strategic war games, her controversial ship-board modifications prove such a disadvantage that she's given an assignment in a virtual graveyard posting. It's made even worse by the fact that her new boss, Pavel Young, is someone she made an enemy of whilst still at the academy. He sets her up to fail and then leaves her to (he thinks) sink – the best move he can make because 'fail' is not a word in Honor's vocabulary. Honour pulls her demoralised crew together and sets about not failing and in doing so shows Young up for the incompetent he is by figuring out that there's an invasion plot underway which he's missed completely.

Does she foil it? What do you think?

I can't say that I'm rushing to read any more Honor Harrington books, but as I said, I'm not a mil-SF fan, so that's not to say there's a fault in the book (the Honorverse's popularity says otherwise) rather there's a basic incompatibility with this reader's tastes.

Date: Apr. 16th, 2011 07:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] purpletigron.livejournal.com
Interesting! I seem to feel similarly about these books - I've read most of them, but I'm afraid I only skim the military details. I'm more interested in the political aspects, but I wish there was a 'version' which was centred on the character developments and interactions than the technical details. It's the characters which keep me going back to these books!

Date: Apr. 16th, 2011 07:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] charlieallery.livejournal.com
Yup, this book totally sucked me into the Honorverse, but eventually when I'd caught up on the released books (about book 10, iirc), and had to wait for another to come out, I drifted away to other things and I haven't seen the last few books. May be time for me to get back into them though. I discovered them at the same time as a mate who is a retired RN CPO and we were both totally hooked, though interestingly she's never favoured Voyager/Janeway, so clearly Honor has something Janeway doesn't - and not just the 6-legged cat!

I *am* a big fan of mil SF though and I favour battle tactics/tech gizmos and action over politics, though this may be a result of my preference for character angst and a side-order of h/c where I can get it. David Feintuch is another favourite, though the angst there stretches even my limits later in the Hope series. What can I say, Starship Troopers was a massive influence on me as a kid and my copy is well-thumbed. ;)

Date: Apr. 16th, 2011 08:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caper-est.livejournal.com
I found that they improved for several books and then dived down their own gravity well at an alarming angle of attack. I've yet to investigate rumours of subsequent escape. As you know, Jacey, such a manoeuvre has been considered obsolete since the Battle of the Octologies in 3844 NCE, when Rear-Admiral Frank Herbert disappeared up one of his own sandworms and was never seen again. However, with the opening up of the metaplot market to free-market competition by the Ailurocracy of Pixel in 4012, the resulting explosion of creativity saw the resurrection and adaptation of many once-rejected tactics (such as the French Revolution, Campbellian psionics, and the ITV-7) to modern conditions. The classic example of this evolution is seen in the meteoric career of David 'Honor' Weber, whose bombardment of target populations with escalating series of cuneiform spatiodynamic projectiles achieved dramatic success in the Manticore cam-

Oh bugger, someone shot me while I was expositing. This never happens in books!

Out of sync with myself

Date: Apr. 16th, 2011 08:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wswears.livejournal.com
Obviously I have some liking for Mil-SF, and technical storylines, but I've long reached the point where I can't really hang in for Weber's level of loving detail in naval engineering. To tell the truth, I'm still buying books from the series, but am far behind in actually reading them... Kim Harrison, Jim Butcher, and Charlaine Harris, on the other hand, I stay right up with.

Date: Apr. 16th, 2011 12:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birdsedge.livejournal.com
Oh, you hit the nail so perfectly on the head. (Sorry about ther bullet wound!)

Is this type of exposition common to a lot of mil-SF of is it a Weber thing? The only mil-SF I've read and enjoyed has been that of Tanya Huff. My (slight) problem there is there there's a lot of military acronymspeak, but the exposition is definitely not a problem. In fact, if anything, a bit or exposition while I caught my breath might be useful.

Re: Out of sync with myself

Date: Apr. 16th, 2011 12:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birdsedge.livejournal.com
Ah, good, it's not just me, then. (Sigh of relief!)

Date: Apr. 16th, 2011 01:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birdsedge.livejournal.com
I have a very vague recollection of reading a Midshipman something-or-other some years ago. It was kind of Hornblower in Space. (I recollect no general problem with Hornblower, BTW, though it's a long time since I've read any.) I'm not sure it was the first of David Feintuch's Seafort books. I found it very stiff and formal and wanted to yell that the 'hero' needed to turn into a human being. I may be doing Feintuch down here - even reading the plot summary on Wikipedia, doesn't convince me that's the same book, though the beginning matches up with what I remember. Any ideas?

It is interesting to note, though, that some of the books I love, notably some of Lois McMaster Bujold's and Elizabeth Ann Scarborough's 'Healer's War' are classed as mil-SF on the Wikipedia list. Healer's War, in particular, has fantasy rather than SF elements dripped into a very authentic VietNam war setting (where Annie actually served as a military nurse).

Date: Apr. 16th, 2011 01:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birdsedge.livejournal.com
Agreed. Characterisation beats military and tech exposition any day.

Date: Apr. 16th, 2011 02:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] slrose.livejournal.com
I bounced off of On Basilisk Station. On the other hand, I really loved Oath of Swords, which is available in the Baen Free Library.

Date: Apr. 16th, 2011 03:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] charlieallery.livejournal.com
Yup, probably was the first of the Seafort saga - another one I should pull out and dive into again. He was indeed incredibly stiff as a character and pretty much drowning in angst. ;) Midshipman's Hope is very like Hornblower in that he's chucked in at the deep and and has to *think* his way out, very much like the young Hornblower. And, of course, noble self-sacrifice abounds! *g*

Date: Apr. 16th, 2011 03:50 pm (UTC)

Midshipman's Hope

Date: Apr. 16th, 2011 08:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wswears.livejournal.com
It sounds like you're in denial, but you've hit on exactly the book. I own the series, and am a fan, but I told David when if first came out that if I were a citizen of that universe, I'd spend my life trying to tear down the government. Really a nasty, theocratic, culture.

Dave Feintuch and I were both on Delphi, which at the time was the only online service with an internet connection. I had joined Delphi because my wife was attending University of Maryland and we needed to be able to e-mail. Then I got into one of their writer's groups. That was 1991, and I had started Split Affinity already. I had to put it down for several years because being a full time USCG pilot and a writer was more than my tiny pea brain could handle.

Bill

Date: Apr. 17th, 2011 03:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hairmonger.livejournal.com
I don't remember which Honor Harrington novel I tried to read, but it wasn't the techspec (which in other people's MilSF I quite enjoy) that drove me mad, it was Honor. I kept wanting to squirt her in the face with one of those trick lapel flowers. I don't remember whether I finished it or not (it was years and years ago) but I have a low tolerance for angst even when I don't dislike the characters. I was interested in the political setup, but not enough to read another volume.

Mary Anne in Kentucky

Date: Apr. 17th, 2011 06:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caper-est.livejournal.com
It's not unknown, but Weber carries it up hill and down dale and off into the western mists. I like Huff usually, but can't comment on her mil-SF as yet, because its first two volumes are still languishing in my to-read pile.

In the Prince Roger series Weber co-wrote with John Ringo, both authors' most irritating quirks frequently cancel out - the dumping issue is far lower-profile there. Unfortunately, there is also constructive interference between the things they have in common, which unless it moves you to laugh like a drain may impair your enjoyment more than somewhat.

Elizabeth Moon's Vatta's War series is pretty low on that kind of exposition, if I recollect correctly.

Re: Midshipman's Hope

Date: Apr. 17th, 2011 11:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birdsedge.livejournal.com
Thanks, Bill, my reaction entirely. Tearing down the government - or getting the hell out of the system - would have been my reaction, too. Interesting that you actually knew D F at that time. FWIW I didn't have the run away reaction to the first chapter of your milSF novel. That grabbed me much more than either Honor Harrington or Midshipman Whatsit.

Date: Apr. 17th, 2011 11:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] birdsedge.livejournal.com
I have a military character who puts in a very brief appearance in my magic pirate novel Though he's from c.1800, he strikes me that he would translate quite well to the Honorverse. His subordinates refer to him as Lieutanant Buckram-Britches. Entirely to stuffy for his own good.

Re: Midshipman's Hope

Date: Apr. 18th, 2011 04:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wswears.livejournal.com
That means a lot to me. I wish that sort of comment meant more to publishers. :-)

Translating into Honorverse

Date: Apr. 18th, 2011 04:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wswears.livejournal.com
He would translate pretty well. Honor is part Lord Admiral Nelson, part Captain Thomas Cochrane, part Horatio Hornblower. The enemy characters are straight from the French Revolution. Robespierre = Rob Pierre.

The correlation was not only intended, but heavily flagged throughout the series. I still didn't get it until I read a post by David Weber about it. Tiny pea brain, again.

Bill

Отличный блог!

Date: Jul. 18th, 2011 05:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cohetteuzum.livejournal.com
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Почитываю

Date: Aug. 11th, 2011 03:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] towlandgaq.livejournal.com
Спасибо, полезный материал. Добавил ваш блог в закладки.Image (http://x-rumer.ru/)

Занятный блог

Date: Jan. 27th, 2012 04:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jodoinifi.livejournal.com
Писателю +1Image (http://zimnyayaobuv.ru/)Image (http://zimnyaya-obuv.ru/)

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